What car is far off from its predecessor's original goal?

"MLGCarGuy" (thejdmguy) 05/21/2015 at 23:13 • Filed to: None

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Some cars have revolutionary ideas. But eventually that idea gets lost through evolution. What car demonstrates this?

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The E28 M5 was supposed to be a sports car that happened to carry more than 2 people. It was fast and agile. It could take corners. But the F10 M5 is now just a fast sedan that carries a M badge.

EDIT : I mean that the E28 is more of an all-out sports car and the F10 is a bit softer, before you launch onto me for claiming the F10 can’t corner.

TheHondaBro > MLGCarGuy 05/21/2015 at 23:16

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The original NSX was meant to kick the established supercar world right where it hurt: reliability.

Nowadays, supercars are a lot more reliable. The new NSX will just be another supercar.

MLGCarGuy > TheHondaBro 05/21/2015 at 23:18

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Extremely true. The NSX has basically no distinguishing features aside from a hybrid system that would persuade you to pick it over an R8.

Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. > MLGCarGuy 05/21/2015 at 23:22

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W140 S-Class was designed with a huge middle finger to the bean counters.

W220? Nope.

Vicente Esteve > MLGCarGuy 05/21/2015 at 23:25

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duh

blacktruck18 > MLGCarGuy 05/21/2015 at 23:25

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Something, something doors.

Bill"TheStig"Murray > MLGCarGuy 05/21/2015 at 23:27

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Corvette

C1: Roadster for the burgeoning middle class, has ho-hum straight-six, made to look nice

C7: Giant slayer, able to beat other sports cars 2-3x the price

nafsucof > MLGCarGuy 05/21/2015 at 23:28

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I don’t know, the m5 was supposed to be a fast sedan that could hold its own against sports cars in corners and straights, it still does that. To say the new m5 doesn’t corner, well is wrong. Every new iteration has pushed the performance envelope further. They haven't had a miss in any generation. It may have gotten bigger but so has the market.

AJ Feldman (alecmets2011) > MLGCarGuy 05/21/2015 at 23:29

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Obvious answer is obvious

MLGCarGuy > blacktruck18 05/21/2015 at 23:29

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You could argue though that the modern Charger still has its predecessor’s aggressive looks and sheer speed.

AthomSfere > MLGCarGuy 05/21/2015 at 23:29

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Well, that and it doesn’t look like every other VW/ Audi.

MLGCarGuy > Bill"TheStig"Murray 05/21/2015 at 23:29

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Good job in finding one that resulted in a good thing.

My citroen won't start > MLGCarGuy 05/21/2015 at 23:30

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It almost makes me cry.

daender > MLGCarGuy 05/21/2015 at 23:30

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The NC Miata in comparison with the NA. The original was a simple roadster with British vibes crossed with Japanese reliability (well, at least three times as reliable as British roadsters). The NC was too big, too heavy, too complex, and less efficient. I believe the NC weighs around 300 or 400 pounds more than a NA, offsetting the 2.0L’s power advantage over the older 1.8 and 1.6L motors. I’m willing to bet that’s just the softtop variant, imagine how heavy the automated retractable hardtop weighs in at! Speaking of hardtops, that mechanism takes up so much space it has has less trunk volume than my NB Miata despite the NC missing a spare wheel and tire.

Let’s not talk about how much more crowded the engine bay is in the NC versus the NB/NA.

nafsucof > MLGCarGuy 05/21/2015 at 23:31

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Ford Explorer? I don’t know this is a tough one...it still hauls groceries...

Nissan Pathfinder. Boom.

MLGCarGuy > nafsucof 05/21/2015 at 23:31

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I kinda feel that the E28 was just a hardcore sports car and the F10 is a bit softer to broaden its appeal. It’s not a bad thing, but I feel the next M5 could be better.

AthomSfere > Bill"TheStig"Murray 05/21/2015 at 23:32

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Wait, the C1 was meant to combat Euro sports cars... Now yeah, you’re right on the C7.

MLGCarGuy > My citroen won't start 05/21/2015 at 23:33

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Come on now. Suggest the real Lancia.

AthomSfere > MLGCarGuy 05/21/2015 at 23:34

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Mustang: Meant to ferry secretaries and be reasonably fun.

Now, a brute of a car meant for people who want to go fast but on average know nothing about cars except ‘Murica and ‘Stangs. (Obviously there are exceptions and I love the 2015s)

MLGCarGuy > daender 05/21/2015 at 23:35

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The NC to me felt more of an underpowered cruising car.

blacktruck18 > MLGCarGuy 05/21/2015 at 23:36

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Yes definitely, I just remember when they came out people were throwing a hissy-fit about it. I think the 4 door is actually better from a sales point, it opens up the potential buyer market considerably. In all honesty, if the Charger was a 2 door the Challenger wouldn’t exist. The market now isn’t the same as it was back then. There is no way they could both exist as 2 doors the sales #’s wouldn’t be there to support both cars.

MLGCarGuy > AthomSfere 05/21/2015 at 23:37

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Also now a German sports car killer for half the price but not as nice quality.

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > My citroen won't start 05/21/2015 at 23:38

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This is the most sad thing ever.

nafsucof > MLGCarGuy 05/21/2015 at 23:39

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Yeah I see that. I think it's the context of it too as the e28 had no competition and there was very little in terms of actual performance vehicles in that era anyways so it was a standout. The new one is lost in a crazy product lineup where it isn't even the top performance sedan anymore(m6 gran coupe).

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > TheHondaBro 05/21/2015 at 23:40

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But.... But. Look at the pop up lights.

nafsucof > MLGCarGuy 05/21/2015 at 23:40

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That being said I had an e28 528e and my best friend had a 533 and we thought we were the shit!!

nafsucof > MLGCarGuy 05/21/2015 at 23:42

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Imagine if the called that the stratos??

JGrabowMSt > MLGCarGuy 05/21/2015 at 23:43

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Have to say it, the SL Class. It was at one point the most beautiful yet fast car of its era. It pioneered many things, but was able to successfully match form with function. Today its only a statement of wealth, Mercedes let the C Class take the lead on the track.

Thats where it all went wrong. Its no longer a race bred champion. You rarely see an SL at the track actually being the king of the road it started as.

MLGCarGuy > nafsucof 05/21/2015 at 23:44

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Lancia Stratos ‘vert? *shudders*

AthomSfere > MLGCarGuy 05/21/2015 at 23:45

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Eh, well maybe now. But it really wasn’t at turns... So I’d give it to Ze Germans...

Also, I guess “quality” is too loose a term. Mustangs weren’t nice, but they were reliable for the most part.

Axial > Bill"TheStig"Murray 05/21/2015 at 23:45

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C1 was actually supposed to be a boulevard cruiser for the Hollywood elite.

MLGCarGuy > AthomSfere 05/21/2015 at 23:47

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By quality I mean interior; it’s obvious that a Mustang is more reliable than an M4 but the M4 will be a better place to sit in.

R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet > MLGCarGuy 05/22/2015 at 00:10

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I will always lust after an e39

LongbowMkII > JGrabowMSt 05/22/2015 at 00:40

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The standard SL was never a track beast. the gullwing was, but the everyday version was more style than racing.

LongbowMkII > MLGCarGuy 05/22/2015 at 00:44

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The original Malibu was the top of the line Chevelle. now it’s the middle of the line car.

Dunnik > AJ Feldman (alecmets2011) 05/22/2015 at 01:19

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I’m just gonna leave this right here

Supercharged-V8-Jag > MLGCarGuy 05/22/2015 at 01:34

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These two.

JGrabowMSt > LongbowMkII 05/22/2015 at 06:09

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The Gullwing was the very original SL, so yes, its deviated significantly from what it was designed for.

Also, Sports Lightweight? The SL Class is far from lightweight today. My SL600 Sport weighs around 4400lbs wet with me in it.

LongbowMkII > JGrabowMSt 05/22/2015 at 06:26

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Didn’t know the gullwing was first, i just remembered that the 190 SL wasn’t the most athletic sports car.

So, you’re saying Germans have been misnaming their cars for decades. The SLK isn't very light or compact either. Haha.

JGrabowMSt > LongbowMkII 05/22/2015 at 07:47

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I will say, the SLK Class is pretty small as far as modern roadsters go with full safety features, and all the technology thats stuffed into them.

The 190SL was never meant to be a sports car. It was a luxury cruiser/GT car, much like the very original ‘53 and ‘54 Corvettes were meant to do. Some speed, but looks came first.

Current SL Class cars would be amazing to see on a track, but with the SLS, AMG GTS and C63 as successful as they are, the current SL63 or SL65 will probably never see track duty unless some insane individual wants to be truly insane.

jkm7680 > MLGCarGuy 05/22/2015 at 07:53

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There’s lots and lots of cars that have slowly wandered away from their roots or intentions. Then there’s cars like the 911 that have stayed true to themselves more.

I’d have to agree with you on the M5 though.

LongbowMkII > JGrabowMSt 05/22/2015 at 07:54

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I can always support more automotive insanity.

MLGCarGuy > jkm7680 05/22/2015 at 08:59

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Many will argue the 911 hasn’t because air-cooled to water-cooled and EPS and PDK and more grumblings but I think these help it maintain its goal of being fun while trying to fit in to regulations.

MLGCarGuy > Supercharged-V8-Jag 05/22/2015 at 09:04

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Agreed. The 2005 car was more of a “punch the gas and see if you survive” car because it had no assists aside from ABS, and that made it unique. The new car is just another “look cool, go fast” car.

Jedidiah > MLGCarGuy 05/22/2015 at 13:01

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Good looking cruiser and muscle car for the burgeoning middle class reduced to this?

newsmctado > MLGCarGuy 05/22/2015 at 13:02

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Slightly off topic, but if had the $$ to buy anything close to a “supercar”, I would probably buy the R8 V10. Reliable, comfortable, fast, AWD. Sure, it’s not as sexy as a 458, or as insane as any Lambo, but it’s faster than 99.9% of anything on the road.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > JGrabowMSt 05/22/2015 at 18:51

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Everything you just said can literally be transferred to this. That’s not to say it isn’t still an excellent performance car with some amount of heritage and pedigree and such. But it’s not really an “enthusiast’s” car as it use to be; more for the wealthy who only want the name and the badge, and not what it represents. Or rather, a misguided understanding of what it means. -_-

Bill"TheStig"Murray > Axial 05/22/2015 at 21:45

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Either way, it was a all-show no go car. It didn’t even have a manual, just a two speed powerglide. Very different from today’s V8 marvel.

Bill"TheStig"Murray > Axial 05/22/2015 at 21:52

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Either way, it was all show and no go. It didn’t even have a manual transmission at first, just a two speed powerglide. 0-60 in an earth shattering 11.5 seconds.

Things changed when that V8 showed up though...

Bill"TheStig"Murray > MLGCarGuy 05/22/2015 at 22:00

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911 just evolved to be more modern, it’s still a rear engined, rear wheeled drive premium sports car. That thing is all about tradition.

I think the big thing that’s changed about the M5 is even what Hammond brought up in his review of the F10. All the M5’s before it were mad dogs straining at the leash, Conan the Barbarian in a tuxedo.

The F10 however actually has a strong duality, it’s more like James Bond now. That philosophy has it’s place but I personally think that’s the 550i’s job description, not the M5.